Orly Taitz, World Net Daily, and the loons over at Free Republic having all been going crazy over this document, which purports to be a record of the birth of Barack Obama at Coast General Hospital on August 4, 1961:
Looks convincing, huh ? Well, not so much.
First of all, there’s a question of why a birth registration record would be issued in 1964 for a child born three years earlier who was not even living in the country at the time. This is significant because any original birth record would be a British colonial record, not a Kenyan record. Kenya was still a British colony in 1961, and did not become independent until December 12, 1963.
Strike One
This leads to the second problem with the purported birth certificate. From December 12, 1963 until December 12, 1964, the official title of Kenya was the Dominion of Kenya. It wasn’t until a year later, on December 12, 1964 that the Republic of Kenya came into existence. And yet, the document above, issued on February 17, 1964 purports to have been issued on behalf of the Office of Principal Registrar, Coast Province, Republic of Kenya.
Strike Two
Finally, this actually allegation has come up before, albeit without documentary “proof” purporting to establish it, and seemingly debunked:
The document, supposedly “certified with an embossed seal” and “witness signatures” says America’s next commander in chief was born at Coast Province General Hospital in Mombasa at 7:24pm on August 4, 1961.
Officials at the hospital confirm they’ve been besieged with requests for information on Obama’s birth but haven’t been able to find any record of it.
“We do not have computerized records going back to the 1960’s and can only sort through our archives by hand,” Dr. Christopher Mwanga, an administrator at the Mombasa hospital tells GLOBE. “We have searched for all the names of babies born on Aug. 4, 1961, and have not found the name of Barack Hussein Obama. That is all I can tell you.”
The hospital has no records, and yet there’s this document, purportedly created three years after Obama’s birth, by officials of a country that wouldn’t exist for another ten months, that has miraculously appeared.
Strike Three.
Something tells me that the birthers are going to be sadly disappointed when this one is revealed for the forgery it most likely is.
Update: First of all, welcome Andrew Sullivan readers and thanks for the link, Andrew !
Second, a point about the document above that I neglected to mention before. It’s worth noting that what we’ve been presented with is a photograph of a document. It’s not a PDF or other similar image that would generated had the document been scanned with an optical scanner. The only reason I can think that someone would do that would be to hide as many of the obvious forgery flaws as they could.
Update # 2: Dr. Conspiracy points out a few other inconsistencies on the face of the document:
There are various internal inconsistencies that have been pointed out that suggest that the Kenyan certificate is more a hoax than a forgery (e.g. the certificate number 47,044 – Obama was 47 years old when he became the 44th president of the US and that the name of the Registrar, E. F. Lavender, is also a brand of handwash).
If there was a Strike Four, that’d be it.
Update # 3 Just a note that there seems to be a bug with the comments for this post. Approved comments are not showing up on the comments page at the moment. Rest assured that if you’ve left a comment, I’ve approved it. I’m trying to figure out what the problem is, but it may be related to the amount of traffic the page has received.
Update # 4 Comments are now visible. Apparently, my hosting company had moved a static version of the page to a separate server yesterday due to the large amount of traffic it was getting. Comment away !
Update # 5 Yet more evidence that the Kenya Birth Certificate is a fake.
Update # 6 So, What Did Kenya Call Itself When That (Fake) Obama Birth Certificate Was Issued ?
Update # 7 Here’s what a real 1960s era Kenyan birth certificate looks like.
I suppose you believe 200,000 Germans came to see HIM in Berlin as opposed to him reading a speech from his teleprompter during intermission at a free rock concert. Most of them did not know who the hell the jerk was or speak English well enough to understand… and you thought there is the proof .. even in Germany they see he is the next great Ameican President!!! When I saw this I saw he was a fraud to the core. Das ist Richtig. You obviously sucked it up Aufwiedershen my friend. Obama is a total fraud believe what you want .. more Kool Aid for Marivn please.
Marvin, that is NOT Obama’s birth certificate. It is simply a “Certificate of Live Birth”. It shows he was born in Hawaii. That is all it shows. It does not cover his adoption.
Honestly, I don’t know how many different ways to say this . . . you cannot even get a passport with that kind of documentation.
We have never had a Presidential candidate who has written a book so much about his life that it causes questions. And we have never had a Presidential candidate who has not released school records, health records, etc. So, why is he not releasing records that all recent Presidential candidates have released? Recent like since mid-1900s.
And I am not throwing any kind of temper tantrum. I would like to know what he is hiding. He said he wanted a transparent administration. He has to this point been one of the least transparent Presidents ever. I think he should live up to his words. If you don’t, then that is your decision.
Like I said, I am fairly certain he was born in Hawaii. If there is something about his past that would invalidate him as President, don’t you think we should know? If he is invalid, then we are setting a horrible precedent. If not, then all is well.
David…don’t you think that the State of Hawaii would have investigated any attempt by Obama to falsify a birth certificate or COLB (whatever you want to call it)? I find your attempt to discredit the document found at Marvin Music’s link above on the basis of a redacted serial number to reek of desperation…a desperation that seems to be rampant among those who cannot accept the fact that the majority of Americans who voted in the last Presidential election actually voted for Barack Hussein Obama…either learn to live with it or let it consume your time and energy for no good purpose…i.e…get a life…
PS Marvin. This is a fact: when he was in Germany he wanted to visit the military but when he was told he could but he had to leave his camera crew outside and so there would be no photo op … he blew them off. TOTAL FRAUD and Phoney. So you see there are very good reasons to not trust. Now he will not release any documents .. Transparency ???? Another lie..
OK, so in reference to the original thread of this, the Kenyan doc.
http://www.bomford.net/worcestershire/images/DavidJeffreyBomfordBirthCertDoc65.jpg
Looks like that was a fake from an Australian birth cert photochopped. The original was from more than 2 years ago, or archive.org is in on the conspiracy. It’s the internet, you can gin up nearly limitless truthy looking documents, what the president should do is let anyone who wants one go to the Sec of State office in Hawaii and get a copy. At least the economy of Hawaii would be stimulated with all the people flying over to get their very own copy of an Obama birth certificate. Wouldn’t change the minds of folks that don’t want to believe, his info was hacked in at (insert random date here).
I suppose there will be some other document that “proves” he’s a foreigner. That’s the problem, when you believe something regardless of logic and available facts, you want it to be true, so anything that makes your wish look more likely, you throw caution to the wind grab hold, hence Las Vegas and the Lottery, not to bash Vegas, I lived there for 10 years.
My mom always said, “wish in one hand, crap in the other, see which one gets fullest the fastest.” Crass but true.
TheOriginal, see previous post. It is in fact the EXACT information you need to get a passport.
Jeez, if the conspiracy is that he just photochopped a doc into existence, then it could be done by a 10 year old, see kenyan doc. Why not at least suppose a rogue agency broke into the records room in Hawaii and inserted the record. Come on, you have to try a little bit harder, this isn’t even good enough for a Saturday afternoon B movie.
It was MI6 in the summer of 1987 when they saw an opportunity to put a mole in the white house. Margaret Thatcher thought it would give them the opportunity to take back the colony from those damn rebels.
“Obama CANNOT reveal his “real birth certificate” because Hawaiian law expressedly FORBIDS public release of the “long form” certificate due to privacy and confidentiality laws.”
Oh, my. You cannot possibly believe that Obama himself cannot release his own birth certificate, can you?
What that statement means is that the state cannot publicly release any birth certificates. No state can do that. In fact, they can’t even release the birth certificate to anyone other than the person who relates to the birth certificate or his or her family.
Sorry, Riley, but I know what it takes to get a passport. I have my own passport. I know what it took for my nephew to get his passport in 1999. It takes a birth certificate, not a COLB. A COLB is not a birth certificate.
Have you ever seen a real birth certificate?
Look, I think Obama was probably born in Hawaii. Fine. Don’t care. I just would like to know what he is hiding. You don’t hide things if there isn’t something that you want to keep hidden.
Well, it was fun “talking” with you people. Have fun! Believe what you want. What you and I think isn’t going to make one bit of difference.
Good evening.
This important basic fact needs to be repeated because it’s really the stem of this whole BS Birther fantasy:
The “Certificate of Live Birth” is the “Birth Certificate.” It’s just a different name for the same thing. Many states send them out with the that title. Saying it’s “not a birth certificate” simply because it has a different name on it is taking semantics to a ridiculous level. By that insane logic nobody in Hawaii has a birth certificate.
So again, there is no other form. That’s it. When you ask the state of Hawaii for your birth certificate, that’s what they send you. That’s it. The state of Hawaii has confirmed this. There is no controversy to anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together. This BC has his birth date, his birth place, and the names of his parents on it. That’s all the info we could possibly need.
You can see President Obama’s birth certificate online: http://www.thepresidentialcandidates.us/president-barack-obamas-birth-certificate/1120/
That’s it. That’s the real deal. It looks very similar to the one I received from another state. Likewise the one I have doesn’t say “birth certificate” on it. It says “certification of live birth.” And yes, it was all I needed to get a passport.
Again, one more time: There is nothing else to release. It’s already there. That’s what makes the birthers so incredibly crazy. They are asking for something that is already online and has been confirmed as the President’s birth certificate by the state he was born in.
Anyone who is still questioning this at this point is a lunatic.
I need to say this one more time because I see “TheOriginal” has repeated the lies about Obama not having released his real birth certificate multiple times and that he’s even made the stupid claim that you can’t get a passport with a “certification of live birth.” I GOT A PASSPORT WITH A DOCUMENT THAT LOOKS JUST LIKE THE ONE OBAMA PUT ONLINE. THATS IT. THATS HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE. THERE IS NOTHING ELSE. FOR FUCK’S SAKE YOU FUCKING LUNATIC.
Are other birth certificates in Kenya at that time written in English ?
Ok, since no one has yet mentioned one of the more obvious things here, it clearly falls to me to step up and do the job.
Several people have said they believe Obama was born in Hawaii but is ineligible to be president since his father was from Kenya and not a US citizen.
Well, rejoice, friends! The good news is that it doesn’t matter where Obama’s dad was born! Heck, it doesn’t matter what either parent’s citizenship was! His mom could be (shudder) French, and he’d still be eligible if he was born in Hawaii!
“But how?” I hear you cry. “Pray illuminate us, oh wise-one.”
I shall. I shall illuminate you with the 14th Amendment to the Constitution. In section one it says:
Ta-da! Anyone born in the US is a citizen, period. This is also where we get “anchor babies” from. It’s also settled case law in United States v. Wong Kim Ark, where the Supreme Court upheld the 14th Amendment.
It also means, and I know most of you will breathe a sigh of relief at this news, that Chester A Arthur was, in fact, a natural born citizen and eligible to be President despite the fact that his father was Irish! Phew!
For these and more points lovingly tearing apart your stupid Birther arguments, please refer to my blog article on this at: http://wilybadger.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/conspiracy-theories-and-you-barack-obama-aint-no-citizen/
Enjoy!
lucslawyer. My point is simple. A $10 long form would stop this speculation regarding his birth. So why not ? Again you are the one postulating a “conspiracy theory” to avoid the reality that Obama must produce his documents to put this to rest. Step one: release the documents Step two: they are examined by court appointed forensics to be certain all is in order. If there are no problem; if they are not then and ONLY THEN do you ask if more people were involved to establish a conspiracy to include Hawaii officials. Step three: the Supreme Court needs to define once and for all what is the meaning of a Natural born Citizen and did this mean Both parents US citizens and born in the US. Logical straight forward and will put and end to this one way or the other. This is not going away until he does this not matter what the MSM says. People are getting pissed he will not release his documents. If all is OK and you trust Obama what are you afraid of and what harm could be done ?
I want to know what level of information or documentation will prove to people that he’s born in the US.
Bare with me, assume its you, you’ve provided all the documentation to many different government agencies and news folk, who’ve said “Yup, Riley, you’re a US Born Citizen”. Someone then comes up and says, prove your a US Citizen. You say, “hey, there’s my birth certificate”
Guy says, “nope, its not a long form birth certificate”
Your response, “well I went down to the courthouse and that’s what they gave me”.
Guy, “Can’t be, says Certification of Live Birth, not Birth Certificate”
You say, “Well, all of them in our state say that.”
Response, “Nope”
Well what do you do? Say buddy, lets go down there and get one together? You could, I guess, but if it’s 20k people, who won’t believe the other 19,999, then do you take all of them? You can’t post it on the interwebs, as anything can be faked online, that’s why you gave it to the news guys.
That’s the problem, I don’t know what else he can provide. Hawaii has a single birth certificate and its called a “Certification of Live Birth” other states say “Certificate of Live Birth”, others still say “Birth Certificate”. The title actually doesn’t matter, the US State Department accepts them all, as long as they have specific information on it and its stamped and signed by the state rep. There is no such thing as a Long Form. Some folks have the form that the Dr signed at the hospital, where a copy was usually submitted to the county health department. But Hawaii and most other states migrated their records to an online store, and some, Hawaii included, doesn’t keep a scanned copy. Probably because they never thought that people would need it, also it’s more expensive to keep the image, and the image is more difficult to search and index.
So my question remains, what level of documentation will anyone of you that don’t believe he’s a citizen, will it take for you too believe it? I’m serious, I want to know.
Marvin; If you cannot tell me the doctors name it is NOT A BIRTH CERTIFICATE. So Obama has not released it. If you cannot understand that you are in trouble my friend. Bye
Anyone who believes this a real birth certificate is motivated by bigotry or politics alone. Obama’s wife had zero reason to fly to Kenya to give birth (what? they had better hospitals there?) And she had no reason to lie about his birth in the US because he was already a US citizen by virtue of the fact that his mother was already a US citizen. Unless she was thinking about her son becoming the first Black president, and this is a tad bit unlikely, she wouldn’t have cared. So why would she put out such lies in the Hawaii newspapers just days after the birth?
The truth is out there….
Obama is an outer space alien! Really!
Even Lou Dobbs said he was an illegal alien.
I want proof that he’s from Earth!
We all know that he was sent here to start the invasion so the outer space aliens could take all the Earth jobs!
Earth for Earthers!
Neither my Ohio birth certificate, my wife’s California, son’s Tennessee, and daughter’s Nevada birth certificate have a Dr’s name. We have our kids hospital documents that do, but that’s not a certified birth certificate. We had to get certified birth certificates to take them to Canada, and that’s what we got.
I don’t understand this belief that a birth certificate needs to have a Dr’s name, it doesn’t.
You can read the Wikipedia article on Birth Certificates. Notice that it talks about states discarding “Long Form” birth certificates do to cost constraints of maintaining them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_certificate
Since birth certificates are defined by the CDC you can read the standard form document revised in 2003. Also note that the standard form is called a “Certificate of Live Birth” not a “Birth Certificate”.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/birth11-03final-ACC.pdf
There is also no place for a Dr’s name, and in fact, you couldn’t because of HIPAA privacy laws.
So all the caterwauling about this being fake because of this or that is just justification, it’s not reason. It’s not reasonable, it’s illogical, and with a tiny amount of effort anyone can inform themselves enough to at least make an informed argument.
I’m just tired of explaining things to people, come on, please use your brain, or at least leverage mine if your not going to use yours. Read something that’s not from the echo chamber, right or left. If your going to oppose Obama, pick an actual issue with weight, that matters.
David…you really want me to believe that the $10 long form would satisfy you and the rest of your ilk? I have absolutely no doubt that you people would raise some other “discrepancy” in a lame attempt to keep the sore festering…besides…you did not answer my original question so I will rephrase it…Do you believe the State of Hawaii would allow Barack Obama to present a falsified birth certificate (or COLB) in order to run for President?…straight up…yes or no….
It still amazes me that there are so many who just refuse to see the truth. The Hawaiian birth certificate HAS been produced and verified–that’s all there is to see. It’s legal, official, and verified. You “demand” to see more. By what right can you demand this, when all reputable authorities have authenticated Obama’s U.S. birth? You’ve seen all you have a right to see. If there was really anything there, don’t you think the opposition (first Hillary Clinton, later the Republican party) would have jumped on it long ago? No, only the nutcases (I can’t call them anything else) on the web and the right wing media are still grasping at straws. Just amazing! And getting to be near dangerous, with the level of vitriol here. And it’s clear that the only reason you’re still pursuing this is your intense hatred for the man. Sorry kids, the case is closed–nothing more here!
I know the Obama thing is really important, but I’ve got another one I feel is equally important–I don’t believe the earth is round. I don’t care if scientists say it is–none of that convinces me. Who are they?–they have no legitimacy to me. They’re all in this grand conspiracy together–even since Gallileo way back in the day. After all, my common sense and observations tell me the earth is flat. When I look down the road in any direction for as far as I can see, it looks pretty flat to me–not at all “round.” When I fly in a plane, I have the same perception. Those supposed “photos” from space that show a round orb–those were manufactured and DOCTORED. FORGERIES!! That’s not enough proof for me. I KNOW they’re hiding something!!!! What are those elitist “scientists” really hiding? I demand to know! Birthers, who’s with me on this?!
David, Riley debunked your stupid “doesn’t have a dr’s name on it so it’s not a birth certificate” nonsense and to add to that point: If Obama doesn’t have a birth certificate, then how did he get a passport? Obviously having a doctor’s name is not an essential part to a birth certificate. I find it hard to understand why you would even think that would be the case? It’s clear you are just grasping at straws – trying to come up with any sort of argument even though it’s obvious as day that the President was born in Hawaii and that the birth certificate he posted online is 100% legitimate.
There is no “$10 longform.” That whole “long form” thing is complete bullshit that the birthers pulled out of their asses. They’ve been repeating it so logn that people actually think it means something. When you get a birth certficate mailed to you (I did this about 6 months ago) you don’t get an option for “short form” or “long form” you just get whatever they send you. That’s what you get in Hawaii. THAT’S IT. There’s nothing else. It’s important to keep reminding the birthers of this point. There’s nothing else to show. Obama has already done what they’re asking him to do. That’s what makes it so fucking crazy.
A confidential informant has told me that Orly Taitz is a Soviet sleeper agent.
I confirmed this with my friend Mikhail Sergeyevich (name redacted) who explained to me that Orly’s task was to make Americans laugh so hard that they would be open to a suprise nuclear strike.
[...] is the original post: Below The Beltway » Blog Archive » The Latest Birther Fantasy … Tags: after-it-hit, debunked-within, document, ends, keep-insisting, month, Occidental, [...]
Oh God, saw the MSNBC interview. That was a train wreck of epic proportions. If I saw that and I believed this stuff, I think I’d say, well, I can’t let anyone know that Oily Taint is on MY side. What was that other thing we were talking about? Hey, its the Goodrich blimp ….Bueller….Bueller….Land Shark….
Remember when if any Dem would question Bush’s judgment on the wars the Republicans would cry “unpatriotic!”?
Well once again the GOP shows their giant hypocrisies & lies.
The right wingers claim they’re protecting the Constitution, where the f*ck were they for the last 8 fricking years as their party tore it to shreds?
I hope they start charging these people with something or give them their day in court or do something to make it super clear that he’s a real citizen or else the right-wing will keep on making shit up & a certain percentage of people, I figure at least 20%, will believe it!
>”You cannot get a passport with a COLB. ”
Actually, that’s about all the State Department will accept. The ‘long form’, which is what the hospital filled out and submitted isn’t accepted. I know, I just renewed my passport 2 years ago and ran into this exact problem.
OBama has been vetted by the FBI and the NSA and the Secret Service, even before he ran for President, (Top Secret clearance for his Senate committees.)
And there is absolutely nothing anyone can produce that would satisfy crazy people.
[...] to rally behind, is to confront her on the substance. The Kenyan “certificate” is a fake. The proof of Obama’s Hawaiian birth is irrefutable. And no lawyer worth a dime buys into her [...]
Kinda like the spouse who thinks their partner has been cheating on them and wants to know but not really because the thought of divorce is too painful; America wants to know if Obama has been cheating on them but some like his supporters really don’t. On the other hand, to delay or hide just makes things worse. At some point the pressure builds and builds and the spouse has to know. The answer is simple; Obama opens up his documents and we learn what it is he is hiding and then we get a divorce or we learn it is not as bad as we fear and move on. Obama knows all the answers but he is still hiding like a cheating spouse hides. Time to come clean.
Kinda like a guy who sees a crop circle and believes that the aliens visited. Regardless of how many times he’s shown the video of the local teenagers doing it.
Your “belief” that he’s hiding something is what your taking on faith, you believe it, so there’s no explaining why your belief is misplaced. No amount of evidence will convince you, no logic will dispel this belief, so there really is no reason to try anymore.
Riddle me this:
If this “long-form birth certificate” does somehow see the light of day, how do we know the birthers won’t immediately respond “FAKE!! FAKE!! SHOW US SOMETHING ELSE!!”…?
Personally, I think the chances are 100% that that’s how they WOULD respond.
The Sailor speaks the truth. When I got my passport (1998), I brought my original hospital birth certificate from home and they WOULD NOT accept it. I had to order one from the state. That is ALL they would accept. The original hospital form is nice, but not considered a true legal document for this kind of stuff. What you get from your state IS the legally-binding proof, and what gets you a passport or a presidential eligibility. And by the way, there is no difference between “Certificate (or Certification) of Live Birth” and a “Birth Certificate.” It’s the same thing, legally, and to anyone with half a brain.
I am amazed at how brainless the birthers are. On a second thought, the brain-dead birthers are my best comedians. Birther David, now that your cheap & Fake Kenyan birth certificate has been exposed, what are you brain-deads going to latch on next?
May be you want to proof that Obama is really from another planet? Who else would have known almost 50 years in advance that a Kenyan born- black boy would one day be the 44th President of the most powerful nation in the world; and prepared (50 years in advance) to hide his identity?
If I am given a choice between hallucinating/paranoid birthers & a single guy who can see almost 50 years into the future; there’s no contest for any sane person will go with the later!
Riley Nice try. We are not talking about aliens and crop circles or earth people or Pagans at Stonehenge. Just releasing some documents which he can easily do. I am truly sorry that you are living in fear of what you may learn if he does open them.
So Ok.. here then is the million dollar attorney question : tell me why he has sealed the documnets if there is nothing to hide.
Thlayli
I have to agree with you there will be some that will NEVER be satisfied. This however is not a good reason for Obama to not practice the transparency he promised. For Gibbs to say “what is the point” in itself is dissmissive and insulting. I do not know what it is OBAMA is so afraid of or ashamed of that he will not release his long form and there is a long form if he was born in Hospital as he claims. The American people trusted him and put him in office, he needs to now trust us to decide if what he has hidden is all that bad.
Riz;
Unless you are a child you know that calling names and such is childish. If it makes you feel better and you have no control over it I understand and forgive you.
To all,
In retrospect, I realize that I have fallen prey to childish behavior too. So I am sorry. Until the name calling stops we do not have chance of an honest and intellectual approach to the question. This is really my concern as the issue has divided many Americans and this is just the opposite of what Obama said he wanted. This is part of the reason I do not understand how he could let this happen to us when it is within his power to fix it. So until we can respectfully share ideas I have more important things to do …like take my labrador for walk. His name is Gus and he is a very cool dog. A rescue at that.
Add in one more mistake on the document: the fee at the top (7s 6d) must be wrong. The currency in Kenya at the time was the East African Shilling – which was divisible into cents (designated “c”), not pence (“d”). This was the case from 1921 to 1969.
Andrew
Interesting observation. The more we scrutinize this document the more questions arise. There is a comparison out there with an Austrailan document which adds additional uncertainty. It would seem that obviously one or the other is likely a forgery ( maybe both ) and if your observations are correct the Kenyan document would be most suspect. We will have to wait for professional independent analysis as Taitz has requested. She is convinced he was born in Kenya but that is premature.
Others have looked at the Obama COLB and have similar questions about that document as well. Like the “race” of Obama Sr. being listed as a Continent “African” verses “Negro” as would be the standard in divisions of vital statistics at the time as well as on the original he released having the serial number sanitized for no obvious reason.
Adding to the confusion Obamas grandmother is on record as well as the Kenyan Ambassador stating he was born in Kenya and the Hawaii official states he was born in Hawaii. None of the individuals have given me reason to doubt them but someone has their story wrong.
Something is wrong we just do not know what but politics aside Obama is so important in his position that we can not afford as a country to have trust issues with this. It is dividing people and if all is in order Obama has the power to stop it but he is still refusng to release his documents. There will always be “nuts” that will never be satisfied but this at least would a step in the right direction.
My suspicion is that both the Kenyan document and the Obama Hawaii document are forgeries or at a minimum Obama document is altered. If we accept the Hawaii officials statement that he was born in Hawaii this just leaves us to more speculation of what Obama thinks is so bad on the long form he has the record sealed. Who knows but his attorneys are threatening anyone who seriously goes after any of his documents. Maybe he lied about who his father is or it is related to the adoption and he never properly changed his name back who knows. I hope the courts start getting involved so we can get this mess straighened out and stop the speculation. While I think this is the best “mystery ” story in years it is divisive for our country so Obama should release his documents and put an end to this.
I appreciate your civil approach!
I had to get a copy of my BC from Indiana a few months ago. Guess what? “Short form” certificate of live birth, pointing to a records book–exactly as what Hawaii did in President Obama’s case. I guess my parents were actually in Canadian waters on Lake Michigan when I was born, so I can’t claim the citizenship I’ve enjoyed all these years. And since I’m now officially an illegal, I suppose the Birthers want to deport me now. (wow–canadian health coverage, here I come!) BTW–I thought Orly was a dentist and not a lawyer. If Obama’s BC were a fake, don’t you think there’s be ONE Hawaiian official who’d step forward and say this? Not a single one has–shouls show this is real, he’s elig. to be President. Get over it. Your guy lost–move on and show YOU’RE a good citizen by supporting the US Gov’t and it’s current leaders.
Steven,
I appreciate your civil approach but there is an assumption you have made that is incorrect. McCain was NOT my guy and by strict definition he had a problem as well which Congress in a joint resolution inappropriately tried to address. Damn Rep and Dems!! If Mc Cain had WON WE would be screaming about this and WE would have just cause in doing so !!! The constitution can not be changed by a Congressional resolution but only ratification which requires 2/3 of the States to agree to. What they hell were they thinking? Are you aware, right now, there are over 30 States drafting 10th Ammendment legislation that could tear our Union apart ? Where is our media ???
This is about the Consitution and we are a Constitutional Republic so in addition to “winning an election” the winner must meet the qualifications of the Constitution. It is the Supreme law of the land and no one even a President is above it. If a President thinks he is above the law ( like Bush
!! ) we do not have a President but something else. Trust me I am just as peeved at what Bush did as what I see now.
Those who ask why we did we not scream then are absolutley justified in your critism and I am absolutely guilty!!! For some I am certatin it is about race but for me it was out of ignorance and apathy. I felt this this year was so important to our country with al the challenges that I began educating myself about our heritage and then I saw the problem and had my OMG moment. Reb and Dems alike are all guilty and have done much harm to us as Americans and our Nation.
In addition, in contast to your statement of being born while on a lake, Obama stated he was born in a Hospital. If this is true there is a Birth Certificate with a Physicians signature , Hospital etc. Obama has spent a small fortune keeping this sealed which only makes it worse not better, and this is dividing us. He can solve this particular issue simply by releasing documents but refuses.
We need transparency on the entire issue and likely a Supreme Court determination of the Natural Born Citizen clause as many legal scholars contend requires BOTH parents US Citizens ( read the Mc Cain resolution ) and born in the US ( not Panama ). Obama Sr. was never a US citizen and Obama refuses to release the documents that would easily put the US birth issue to rest unless there is a problem.
Either our Constitution matters or it does not…. if it does we are in the Middle of a Constitutional crisis like it or not and it would be no different if McCain had won. Damn greedy politicians to put us in this position !!! Especially now.
David…so your “suspicion” is that both the Kenyan and Hawaiian documents are forgeries or that “at a minimum [the] Obama document is altered (I am assuming you are referring to the Hawaiian COLB)……I repeat my question…Do you believe the State of Hawaii would allow Barack Obama to present a falsified birth certificate (or COLB) in an attempt to run for President of the United States? ….straight up…yes or no…
Oh, another thing David…your attempt to use John McCain as a justification (or should I say cover) for your claims concerning Obama is pitiful …Leading Democrats were quick to rally to McCain’s support in answering any questions about his citizenship…quite a contrast to the lame republican response to this manufactured “controversy”…and “if McCain had WON WE (sic) would be screaming about this”…just who are you trying to kid?
lucslawyer:
I think you are confused a little as we are not in a Court room and I am not under your “cross examination”. So you can repeat your question in a demanding prose all you want and it is up to me to decide if I wish to answer it or not. Until you can overcome your partisan attitude and blame game, as I do not see this as a partisan issue other than to freely admit my own failings, (for which then I must again suffer an insult from you )I have better things to do. If on the other hand you can rise above it I will reconsider.
Oh God, David…I insulted you by asking a direct question? And as for not being in a courtroom…you are presenting a case, making a claim…that case is being discussed…I ask you a question concerning what I believe to be a weakness in the case you make and you refuse to answer…my “partisanship” does not relieve you of your responsibility to answer my question IF you want me to believe that you are correct in the assertions you make in stating your case…the “rising above this” attitude you are displaying does nothing but reaffirm MY belief that you are afraid that answering the question would expose your case to further questioning on my part which you do not wish to accept…
Since you feel I have already insulted you, I will just lay it all out…any attempt to claim that Barack Obama is not a citizen of the United States must necessarily rest on the FACT of his birth certificate (or any proof of birth issued by the State of Hawaii) being a forgery or somehow altered in an attempt to fulfill the requirements of the Constitution…the proper authorities of the State of Hawaii have had plenty of time and opportunity to examine the document presented by President Obama as proof of his fulfilling those requirements…now, to believe that document is forged or in some way altered is to in effect accuse those officials of fraud against the American people in that they were complicit with President Obama by acknowledging that document as official and correct…I have yet to hear of ANY accusations of that nature against such officials…so, if you cannot present proof of such activities by those officials I would suggest you drop this case and move on…
Ok, let me pose this part again. I find it interesting that if
this is a fake, there’s not ONE official in the entire state of
Hawaii who’s willing to come forward and prove your case. Every
one of the officials who have access to the birth records all
have verified the President’s birth in that State. Are you then
going to take the entire State to court for perjury? The odds of
having at least one person in Hawaiian Gov’t who doesn’t like
the President seems good–if it were a fake, they’d come foreard.
No one has. Sorry, but I don’t chase shadows. You shouldn’t
either. That or sue the entire state of Hawaii.
The number of the book is identical on both documents: Book 44B, Page 5733.
The probability of this happening is close to 0.
Speaking of the document number, we know that the 44B is Barack, the 44th President. Someone offered to tell us what the 5733 decoded as–I have to admit it doesn’t mean much to me. Care to fill the rest of us in?
(I’m still waiting for those hoardes of Hawaiian officials to come forward and tell us that the BC is a fake–all I’ve noticed so far is the thundering silence on that score.)
Do you want to impress your right-wing friends and have the fun of having them denounce you as a foreign-born impostor? Want to claim dual-citizenship from a now-popular African country? Do you yearn to confound the officials of your birth state to produce legitimate records for you?
Well NOW YOU CAN!
http://kenyanbirthcertificategenerator.com/